Phenomenal article, I love the detail and all the references. Absolutely fantastic , thank you.
I COULD NOT agree with you more about pulling at training. I am so happy you wrote that. It's infuriating having taken the time and effort to practice pulls solo , only to have some bozo take the disk and brick it with terrible technique. Pulling in the 7v7 is super valuable because you have the field marked out and it's much more realistic.(You can have your D line know your rhythm and will help them stay onside in games) Pulling is one of the few things that can be practiced extremely well solo. Can we PLEASE start giving D Line players who practice pulls more good reps to hone our skills. If you want to pull at training , go practice it and EARN IT . That's all I ask.
To the pulling at practice point, I play on a high level team but we only train once per week so if we’re spending time walking discs in to the brick mark, it’s a load of wasted time instead of disc in play time. It also obviously does the usual stuff like taking the wind out of the sails of a D line who are belting down after a pull…
I really don't understand your scenario 1 and scenario 2 (explaining why you think a pull should land in the middle of the field). A person catching a centering pass that came from the middle of the field will have less options than if they caught a centering pass that came from the sidelines? Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline than to stop a centering pass up the field from the middle?
Do you think there are things you learned by getting the chance to pull a lot and fail a lot in games that learners would miss out on if they learned to pull by practicing by themselves as you suggest? Do you know people who have gotten really good at pulling without lots of in-game attempts/failures? (I ask because...Ian's preferred "game-centric" approach would suggest the best pulling practice is fully realistic—i.e. in game—pulling practice. And your own experience seems to perhaps be evidence in favor of that...) (PS all that being said, I do agree that practice will help a lot! But maybe I'd lean a bit more towards "lots of practice and lots of in-game attempts, even before you feel ready".)
In the various scenarios, what I'm saying (which I may have been unclear on, sorry if so!) is that I want the first pass from the offence to not be a pass to the middle third of the pitch (a "centering pass") and that a good pull + pull chase should push the offence laterally to one of the sideline thirds of the pitch. From here it's harder from them to use the full width of the pitch and gain yards.
"Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline than to stop a centering pass up the field from the middle?" I'm working on the assumption that most teams don't chase the pull (or indeed throw the pull) well enough to fully stop a first pass, so if we can pressure that first pass, but not stop it, I want it going from the middle laterally and not from the sideline to the middle third. Hope that's clearer.
TL;DR: I don't think you need to be at training to learn to pull. You can learn to throw a disc 50-60m with 5-7 second hang-time outside of training.
Pulling is thankfully one of the skills of Ultimate you can practice most easily when you're alone. If you've never pulled and don't really know how to pull, I don't think a training is the right place to figure it out on the fly - at least not for high end teams. That's more my point in the article rather than you can't pull if you're not the primary puller. I also think if you want to learn pulling and get feedback from peers/coaches in a training environment there's normally downtime pre/post training / in between drills that you can rip a few discs and figure stuff out. There's lots of benefits to pulling at training / in-game, for sure (your team learns your timing, you get in-game feedback on what a good pull's outcome looks like for your team, etc) but as I say I think you can learn to pull without needing 13 others on the pitch to play out a point after.
I wouldn't say I know many elite pullers who haven't played on developing teams where they get the opportunity to pull first before making their elite team. They would have played at school/uni level first which is a good environment to learn pulling skills and to share it around.
What I'm imagining is that I pull the disc to the sideline but the pull chasers run down the center of the field to pressure a centering pass. There's no rule that the people chasing the pull have to run directly towards where the disc lands :)
Is there something wrong with my logic—or some other reason that this doesn't work in your scenarios? That's specifically what I was imagining when I asked the "Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline" question. I don't see any reason that my pull chasers would be pressuring that pass less just b/c it's coming from a different angle.
For any "center pass receiver" standing at location (X,Y) on the field, wouldn't the defense be able to put equivalent pressure on them regardless of where the pull landed? (I can think of some responses to my own question but I'll leave it to you for now...)
Gotcha! The margin for error is the smallest if aiming for your pull to land/be received in the middle of the pitch so yes, you can aim for the pull to hang towards the sideline / roll out the side but IF it lands in and IF a pass gets out if it's likely to be more advantageous for the offense to get a centering pass or a pass for yards rather than it being more or less guaranteed to be in and pushed out sideways.
I still don't really see it. Let's take a specific example, in the article you linked they say "Deep centre-field: A deep, hanging pull will often leave the offence with only a swing to the sideline..." And have the example GIF below it from "GB vs. Condors".
But imagine the pull had gone just as far down the field, with just as much hangtime, but landed much closer to the sideline.
You seem to be saying that in this hypothetical, the player who catches the centering pass would end up *closer to the middle of the field* than what actually happens in the clip. But how could that be the case? The pull chaser will still be there in the middle of the field. (In your mind, exactly where would the disc have ended up in my hypothetical? And if you're saying it would have ended up closer to the center of the field, can you say more about exactly how it would get there?)
I get that a pull to the middle might result in a pass *towards* the sideline and a pull to the side is more likely to result in a pass *away* from the sideline. But that doesn't imply that the pull to the sideline results in a pass *that ends up closer to the center of the field*.
(And yes I obviously agree that pulling towards the sideline risks a brick. But that's unrelated to the discussion of this one specific detail.)
Yeah, so this gif shows exactly what I'm talking about - because of the good chase, the player receiving the first pass bails on taking the disc in the middle third on the pitch to avoid being run-through D'd by someone they can't see for the entirety of their pull chase. They end up on the far side of the pitch to their side stack but they're unable really to attack the far third of the pitch for yards (the third nearer the camera).
If the disc goes as far but over to the sideline, and we're saying that one pass does get off, it's not likely they're getting yards on their pass because of the chase right? They're going to be passing laterally into the middle of the field or upfield into traffic which isn't advisable.
At no point have I said they need to get positive yards on a centering pass (not suggesting you've said I've said this either), so if a pull is good and towards the sideline, I'd prefer to take a loss of a handful of yards to open up the full pitch so I can get the disc in the middle of the pitch and attack all areas of the pitch on that next pass.
As a puller , the reason I want to pull in training is to get used to the pressure (Mental) . People even in training will make stink faces if I brick it badly. But I'm not learning technique here. That can 100% be done outside training scrimmages. I think people want to pull in training because the pitch is all setup nicely. You can setup a pitch for yourself in a local park (hopefully this is possible)
Yeah I think the important thing here is that you’ve learned your technique somewhere else and haven’t just stood on the line at a high level practice and said “I’ll try my first pull ever.” That’s kinda where I draw the line / would be encouraging someone to just rip a backhand, pending someone else on the line being able to pull…
Interesting aside - I’ve just finished editing my footage from London Invite 2023 and in the bronze medal game one of the GB Open players just stands on the line and rips a backhand upwind instead of pulling. Big smarts 🧠
Phenomenal article, I love the detail and all the references. Absolutely fantastic , thank you.
I COULD NOT agree with you more about pulling at training. I am so happy you wrote that. It's infuriating having taken the time and effort to practice pulls solo , only to have some bozo take the disk and brick it with terrible technique. Pulling in the 7v7 is super valuable because you have the field marked out and it's much more realistic.(You can have your D line know your rhythm and will help them stay onside in games) Pulling is one of the few things that can be practiced extremely well solo. Can we PLEASE start giving D Line players who practice pulls more good reps to hone our skills. If you want to pull at training , go practice it and EARN IT . That's all I ask.
Glad you enjoyed it!
To the pulling at practice point, I play on a high level team but we only train once per week so if we’re spending time walking discs in to the brick mark, it’s a load of wasted time instead of disc in play time. It also obviously does the usual stuff like taking the wind out of the sails of a D line who are belting down after a pull…
Long story short, play O line 👌
Cool article.
I really don't understand your scenario 1 and scenario 2 (explaining why you think a pull should land in the middle of the field). A person catching a centering pass that came from the middle of the field will have less options than if they caught a centering pass that came from the sidelines? Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline than to stop a centering pass up the field from the middle?
Do you think there are things you learned by getting the chance to pull a lot and fail a lot in games that learners would miss out on if they learned to pull by practicing by themselves as you suggest? Do you know people who have gotten really good at pulling without lots of in-game attempts/failures? (I ask because...Ian's preferred "game-centric" approach would suggest the best pulling practice is fully realistic—i.e. in game—pulling practice. And your own experience seems to perhaps be evidence in favor of that...) (PS all that being said, I do agree that practice will help a lot! But maybe I'd lean a bit more towards "lots of practice and lots of in-game attempts, even before you feel ready".)
Hey LT, thanks for the reply!
In the various scenarios, what I'm saying (which I may have been unclear on, sorry if so!) is that I want the first pass from the offence to not be a pass to the middle third of the pitch (a "centering pass") and that a good pull + pull chase should push the offence laterally to one of the sideline thirds of the pitch. From here it's harder from them to use the full width of the pitch and gain yards.
"Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline than to stop a centering pass up the field from the middle?" I'm working on the assumption that most teams don't chase the pull (or indeed throw the pull) well enough to fully stop a first pass, so if we can pressure that first pass, but not stop it, I want it going from the middle laterally and not from the sideline to the middle third. Hope that's clearer.
TL;DR: I don't think you need to be at training to learn to pull. You can learn to throw a disc 50-60m with 5-7 second hang-time outside of training.
Pulling is thankfully one of the skills of Ultimate you can practice most easily when you're alone. If you've never pulled and don't really know how to pull, I don't think a training is the right place to figure it out on the fly - at least not for high end teams. That's more my point in the article rather than you can't pull if you're not the primary puller. I also think if you want to learn pulling and get feedback from peers/coaches in a training environment there's normally downtime pre/post training / in between drills that you can rip a few discs and figure stuff out. There's lots of benefits to pulling at training / in-game, for sure (your team learns your timing, you get in-game feedback on what a good pull's outcome looks like for your team, etc) but as I say I think you can learn to pull without needing 13 others on the pitch to play out a point after.
I wouldn't say I know many elite pullers who haven't played on developing teams where they get the opportunity to pull first before making their elite team. They would have played at school/uni level first which is a good environment to learn pulling skills and to share it around.
Re pull chase:
What I'm imagining is that I pull the disc to the sideline but the pull chasers run down the center of the field to pressure a centering pass. There's no rule that the people chasing the pull have to run directly towards where the disc lands :)
Is there something wrong with my logic—or some other reason that this doesn't work in your scenarios? That's specifically what I was imagining when I asked the "Why would it be harder to stop a centering pass from the sideline" question. I don't see any reason that my pull chasers would be pressuring that pass less just b/c it's coming from a different angle.
For any "center pass receiver" standing at location (X,Y) on the field, wouldn't the defense be able to put equivalent pressure on them regardless of where the pull landed? (I can think of some responses to my own question but I'll leave it to you for now...)
Gotcha! The margin for error is the smallest if aiming for your pull to land/be received in the middle of the pitch so yes, you can aim for the pull to hang towards the sideline / roll out the side but IF it lands in and IF a pass gets out if it's likely to be more advantageous for the offense to get a centering pass or a pass for yards rather than it being more or less guaranteed to be in and pushed out sideways.
Tom Abrams (Mum) speaks to it also in his Flik article (https://www.flikulti.com/theory/defence/strategy/pulling-strategy/)
I still don't really see it. Let's take a specific example, in the article you linked they say "Deep centre-field: A deep, hanging pull will often leave the offence with only a swing to the sideline..." And have the example GIF below it from "GB vs. Condors".
But imagine the pull had gone just as far down the field, with just as much hangtime, but landed much closer to the sideline.
You seem to be saying that in this hypothetical, the player who catches the centering pass would end up *closer to the middle of the field* than what actually happens in the clip. But how could that be the case? The pull chaser will still be there in the middle of the field. (In your mind, exactly where would the disc have ended up in my hypothetical? And if you're saying it would have ended up closer to the center of the field, can you say more about exactly how it would get there?)
I get that a pull to the middle might result in a pass *towards* the sideline and a pull to the side is more likely to result in a pass *away* from the sideline. But that doesn't imply that the pull to the sideline results in a pass *that ends up closer to the center of the field*.
(And yes I obviously agree that pulling towards the sideline risks a brick. But that's unrelated to the discussion of this one specific detail.)
Yeah, so this gif shows exactly what I'm talking about - because of the good chase, the player receiving the first pass bails on taking the disc in the middle third on the pitch to avoid being run-through D'd by someone they can't see for the entirety of their pull chase. They end up on the far side of the pitch to their side stack but they're unable really to attack the far third of the pitch for yards (the third nearer the camera).
If the disc goes as far but over to the sideline, and we're saying that one pass does get off, it's not likely they're getting yards on their pass because of the chase right? They're going to be passing laterally into the middle of the field or upfield into traffic which isn't advisable.
At no point have I said they need to get positive yards on a centering pass (not suggesting you've said I've said this either), so if a pull is good and towards the sideline, I'd prefer to take a loss of a handful of yards to open up the full pitch so I can get the disc in the middle of the pitch and attack all areas of the pitch on that next pass.
As a puller , the reason I want to pull in training is to get used to the pressure (Mental) . People even in training will make stink faces if I brick it badly. But I'm not learning technique here. That can 100% be done outside training scrimmages. I think people want to pull in training because the pitch is all setup nicely. You can setup a pitch for yourself in a local park (hopefully this is possible)
Yeah I think the important thing here is that you’ve learned your technique somewhere else and haven’t just stood on the line at a high level practice and said “I’ll try my first pull ever.” That’s kinda where I draw the line / would be encouraging someone to just rip a backhand, pending someone else on the line being able to pull…
Interesting aside - I’ve just finished editing my footage from London Invite 2023 and in the bronze medal game one of the GB Open players just stands on the line and rips a backhand upwind instead of pulling. Big smarts 🧠